Point/Counterpoint: Troop surge in Iraq

By Jessica Lewis

and Tyler Murphy

Sun Staff Writers

EDITOR'S NOTE: Sometimes, Evening Sun reporters just like to argue. In this feature, the sides of the argument were chosen arbitrarily; they do not necessarily represent the author's true viewpoints.

Although it is a highly controversial topic right now, increasing the troop level in Iraq is the right thing to do. For nearly four years, the United States has been fighting a war in Iraq, and if things go unchanged, the violence is going to continue for many years to come.

People do not want to see an increase in the number of troops to Iraq, but what real alternatives do we have? We have none. Perhaps our reasons for going to Iraq in the first place were flawed; we have found no weapons of mass destruction and there is no clear link between the terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center and the Iraqi regime, but that is a moot point. The issue now is the instability that has been created in the country. Now that our troops are fighting in Iraq, and we have removed Saddam Hussein from power, we have to continue the work that we started. – JLL

Wow I’m not sure where to start laughing. OK, we’ll first off it’s not a controversial topic or didn’t you vote in the national election where Republicans were ousted out of our legislative branch of government? The president’s approval rating is so low that to find support he has to lower his head. Support for the Iraq war is bouncing off the floor like a tennis ball. America wants out, not in. The controversy is generated by the notion of going against congressional, public and academic opinion (ever heard of a little thing called the Iraq study group, but I’ll get to that in a minute). Since when did sending in more troops ever stop violence? Give me one modern example. Here are some for you, Vietnam, no; Somalia, no; Israel and Lebanon, no; Iraq ... How are you going to deter these fanatics? Hey don’t blow yourself up because we’ll shoot you? I’m sure they’ll welcome the abundance of targets.

So what you’re saying is why fight a war, or rather why we started a war has nothing to do with the idea of continuing that war? Isn’t that exactly what it’s about? Fighting a war because you don’t want to lose is not a military strategy, it’s a political one. – TDM

Oh I’m sorry, I thought the definition of controversial was to give rise to public disagreement (and if you’ve watched or read the news in the last week, you would see that there is definitely public disagreement on this topic), but according to you it has something to do with voting.

Listen, if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts all around you, that is your choice, but I refuse to do so. Countless generals and military minds – you know, those people with actual military experience and expertise – have admitted that pulling the troops out of Iraq at this juncture would increase the sectarian violence in Iraq.

Yes, there are fanatics who will go to extremes to try to defeat U.S. forces in Iraq. That may be the only rational point that you made. Clearly, if immediately pulling troops out of Iraq would increase the sectarian violence, which it would, then we need to send more troops to support those who are already there.



This nation’s troops are the biggest asset that our country has, and since they are already involved in this war, they deserve all of the support that we can give them. That is why the reasons for starting this war are no longer important. What is important is making sure that our soldiers have everything they need to be successful in this endeavor. – JLL

No offense, but America shouldn’t get overly concerned over what’s best for the troops because they are fighting for what’s best for America and its people. Our priority is to the future of our democracy and our nation; to betray this belief makes all their sacrifices vain.

Pulling out isn’t the answer either and I never said that. I said sending more troops is not the answer. A slow withdrawal that nurses the Iraqis into responsibility should be employed. If they want a free and democratic country for themselves, they are going to have to accept the fact that some of them may have to die to earn it and isn’t that fair to ask? Why should American troops be asked to continue to accept this responsibility? Voting is the ultimate opinion poll because, by power of choice, one controls the course of this country – and the vote in November was to reject current policy.

America can not afford to occupy a country indefinitely. At what point do you believe we should begin to leave, since my guiding light of decision, public, legislative and professional disapproval wasn’t good enough for you to accept? The Iraq study group offered several options apart from sending more troops. Peace is achieved at the table and not at the barrel of a gun. We are not there to destroy a country, we are there to build one. The biggest asset this country has are its citizens, not its military. – TDM

At what point did our troops stop being American citizens? They are the truest American citizens, those who are willing to protect the liberties of this country at the risk of their own health and safety. We should look at what solution will benefit them, as well as the rest of our country, and the country we have destroyed over the last four years. If you can’t understand that, then there is no sense arguing with you, because you clearly are too self absorbed to care about anyone except yourself.

Your proposed solution – don’t immediately pull out of Iraq but don’t send more troops either – is no solution at all. Your line of thinking seems to be, if something isn’t working, let’s keep doing the same thing and see if the results will change.

The biggest ordeal the troops are facing in Iraq is the inability to keep stable territories stable. They go in, secure an area and move on. Meanwhile, they are just pushing the insurgents from one area to another. By the time they return to the secured area, they find they have to start all over again.

No, the people of this country do not want to see more troops deployed to Iraq, but they don’t like your brilliant solution of leaving things unchanged, either. The worst decision you can make, is making no decision at all.

Only the Iraqis can end the sectarian violence, but they need our help to do so. We went in and made a bad situation worse, and now we need to help the Iraqi people pick up the pieces and put their country back together. Of course we should not stay in the country indefinitely, but we should at least make an effort to see this plan through. – JLL

I’m pretty sure that a phased withdrawal is an original plan and not the status quo. Just because you join the military doesn’t make you better than anyone else. It’s appreciated, but I’m fairly certain plenty of non-combatants have helped contribute to this country plenty. The Iraqi Prime Minister told U.S. commanders he doesn’t even want the troop surge, he wants more independence.

When are you going to learn that you can’t defeat an insurgency with conventional military tactics? The guerillas aren’t moving from area to area, they are hidden among a sympathetic population that will undoubtedly become more sympathetic to their cause once troops begin banging in doors and fighting in their neighborhoods. They are regular people pushed to the edge in an environment that makes death seem more appealing (that is literal). You are fighting an idea, not an army and the harder you squeeze a population, the more it will slip through your fingers. In order to find one enemy you’re going to have to persecute an entire community; and even if you find them, you just created more. We’re in their homes and in their hearts and we haven’t the right. One of the most destablizing elements in Iraq is the continued presence of the American military. – TDM

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5 comments on this story

lou_77
January 20th, 2007 at 10:04 am
I have found the discussion over the troop surge in Iraq to be an interesting one. Both sides make well thought out,heated, and interesting points. I wanted to put in my two cents as a citizen, patriot, and Soldier. I agree that our troops are our nation's greatest treasure, the sons and daughters of our citizens, the brothers and sisters, the husbands and wives. I have been over seas for three out of the past four years. I wouldn't have made it without the support of my wonderful wife, my friends, and family. The audience's families and I have chewed some of the same dirt, ridden in some of the same convoys, and have seen what doesn't happen when there are sufficient forces to help secure streets, schools, and cities/districts. We need to be united in supporting our troops, as for what's best for them......we owe them nothing less. Most citizens don't experience the sickness that comes with extreme climate and altitude changes, the fear of knowing when you suit up to leave the wire there are people who would love to destroy themselves and take you along for the ride. Mr. Murphy's comments seemed alittle jaded, I was disheartened some. I don't think I'm special, nor do I expect special treatment. I think I'm lucky. I have met some of the greatest people I have ever known in the military. In the list of campaigns fighting an unclear enemy Korea was ommitted. I once was in the American Legion and had the pleasure of meeting a Korean War Veteran, moreover, one of the "Chosin" few aka the "Frozen Chosin". He belonged to the 1-32nd Infantry Battalion in Korea and held the Chosin reservoir until they could be reinforced. This highly motivated, prestigous Infantry Battalion fought like the lions they are. They held a division of Chinese soldiers for over a week with a Battalion, earning their motto "Against All Odds". I remember listening to this story and being mezmorized as I too am one of the Chosin few. I will always remember the man who told this story to me, as I have the highest respect for him. His name is Mr. Murphy, not the writer, his grandfather. My point being, our Soldiers are our citizens, they deserve the best equipment we can give them, and the war(while unpopular) will realistically be 3-5 more years in order to train the Iraqis, really develop the infrastructure, and stand up the economy. I believe this time period will see Iraq stabilize, as the Balkans have since the mid-90's when genecide, hatred, and chaos were plaguing that area.
Maggie-Shayne
January 20th, 2007 at 6:04 am
It's hard to say what's going to work in Iraq.
However, I have to take issue with Tyler's quote:

--"No offense, but America shouldn’t get overly concerned over what’s best for the troops because they are fighting for what’s best for America and its people."--TDM

Actually, that the troops are doing what's best for the American people is an extremely good reason for the people to be concerned about what's best for the troops. Anything less would be pretty ungrateful.

I will add, that as a military wife, JLL is in a position to understand this entire situation from a soldier's point of view. I might think I know something about building bridges after having read books and articles about it, and I might have gathered opinions on the topic from lots of people who've never built one, but if an actual bridge-builder tells me differently, I'm going to be humble enough to reconsider my opinion.
January 19th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
It's nice to know that we have so many Monday Morning Soldiers in America. Until you have walked a mile in our shoes - don't start telling us what is good for us.
You sit back in your easy chair and blame the republicans, the policies, and the president for Iraq. What happened to defending freedom in the world, protecting those who are not capable to protecting themselves, or simply being humane? I find it laughable that the monday morning couch potatoes actually believe that they know foreign policy and that their opinion is the only resolution. HA HA HA.
When 9/11 happened, the entire country wanted to fight terrorism. We all stood behind our leadership, policies, and yes, even the president. We were told that this was going to be a difficult to fight. We were told that this war was going to take a long time. And, we were told that soldiers were going to die. We did not stand at that time to say this was wrong, no - we rallied behind our troops, government, and president to fight this war. And, now that you sit in your easy chair, remote in hand, and the almighty internet available and feel it is your duty to stand against our troops, government, and president simply because you can, no other reason! No one really knows the facts of the war - just what we see in the media, which is one side of an argument. Listen to our troops, they tell a different story of what is going on in Iraq.
I, for one, refuse to waiver - no matter if Wild Bill is in charge, or if Dubya is in charge, or who is "lucky" enough to get the job next.
WVAN
January 19th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
I normally do not respond or comment but after reading this point and counterpoint I could not help but comment. I enjoy the fact that you are covering a topic that in other parts of the country is controversial. It is not a light subject, some of us live it daily. I grew up in the area, but moved because of the military 14 years ago. I stay connected, and like to be informed of attitudes and news in the Chenango county area. I do have to say, however, I took it personally when Mr Murphy took what could be catagorized as "pot shots" at any active duty personel, reservists and their families. I understand right to an opinion, that is what the military secures you the right to have. However, if Mr Murphy had simply stayed on topic and not got in his "digs" it would be better recieved. The line that really fired me up was "biggest asset this country has is it's citizens, not it's military". I am sorry sir, but the military is made of up citizens that have sacrificed everything to give you and all others the freedom to go about your daily lives, and have opinions. These scarifices go on daily, not just in Iraq, but everywhere, even in our own country. These men and women and their families give up everything to protect and serve. You may have your opinion sir, and I respect all opinions, but getting in some negative digs about military personel was truely uncalled for in a debate such as this. I have always been very proud of Chenango county's support of the military members and their service and I hope that the area keeps portraying this image regardless of your personal views of specific missions. Weather or not your comments were against the military I think next time some sensitivity should be given to those that are daily dealing and serving our country with things that you just write about. You may not think because you join the military you are better, but I do tell you sir, the people that do join the military are special. That, regardless of opinions, needs to be recognized.
Becky0001
January 19th, 2007 at 9:44 am
You mention the republicans being ousted; Remember that the democrats BARELY have a majority, and if Senator Johnson is unable to return to his elected position, the senate will be republican. This is certainly not a huge victory by any means.
I find two aspects of this discussion distubing:
One is the consideration of any policy foreign or otherwise to be a POLITICAL issue. That is misguided thinking so if you use the election as an excuse to say the policy is wrong, you are missing the point. Secondly, this entire issue IS NOT LAUGHABLE!!! I had a son in Iraq. I took his deployment SERIOUSLY! I also know that increasing troop levels will increase security for AMERICAN Troops. The more soldiers that can watch each other's backs, the safer they all are.
As far as long term policy goes, I would like to see a positive outcome here as we will have to fight the victor if the Iraqui people end up in anarchy, and under fundamentalist rule (IRAN).
As far as weapons of mass destruction it was reported shortly after the fall of Baghdad that they were flown out to Syria in the previous weeks by commercial airliners. As far as the potential for atrocities including weapons of mass destruction coming from the previous regime (namely Sadaam), look to the hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT PEOPLE who were killed by Weapons of Mass Destruction. (poisonious gas). That alone should be enough of a cause to topple the cruel and inhumane regime.
I wonder where the ethics are of those who postulate theories of liberal free thinking and living, and yet those who do so, then turn a deaf ear on suffering and pain throughout the rest of the world. I guess as long as free love exists in left-coast San Fransisco, all is good enough for the rest of the world. The same attitude killed 6 million jews in WWII.
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