Bush on Child Healthcare 2004 vs 2007

[odon11]

One of the hospitals I used to work in would charge items to those with insurance instead of billing it to the uninsured or Medicaid patient. The nurses all knew that most insurance companies don't question a lot of the medical supplies used, and patients rarely ever ask for an itemized bill. Even if they did get an itemized bill, they wouldn't have a clue as to what they were charged for. By billing the supplies to the insured patient, the uninsured patient wouldn't get such a large bill, and the insurance would pay more than the Medicaid will.

Was that in New Jersey? In New York, an itemized bill is required by law. At least it used to be when I worked at CMH. The rest of what you said is fraudulent activity, pure and simple. I'm pretty sure that health insurance companies delve pretty deeply into billing to make sure a patient had approriate testing. Can you say ICD-9?

Yes it was in NJ, many years ago. I know it was fraudulant, I questioned it when I was told by one of the nursing supervisors to do it. It was kind of a "don't ask don't tell" thing. It was also before everything was computerized, and we used the addressograph machines to put the patients info on the charge slips for supplies so it was very simple to just use another patients card on the slip. We didn't do it for tests, just supplies.

When I was a patient at CMH I was surprised to receive an itemized bill without asking, in other states it had to be requested.

When my youngest son was born he was in NICU and I requested a bill from the hospital he was born in, as well as the hospital he was transferred to. They didn't automatically do it. Our insurance company at the time used to send out $100 "reward" checks to anyone who found things on their bills that was not accurate. I found this out when I questioned the charge on the bill for a circumcision kit, I know my son was not circ'd there because he was too sick. Most insurance companies would never question that charge because it's a common item to be billed for. I found a few other things I was charged for and knew I never had. My insurance company sent me a check for $100. The did this to get patients to make sure they were not overcharged for things, and I'm sure it saves the ins company a lot of money in the long run. I think it's a good idea. No need to charge patients for things they never used.

[spedly]

Because the way the economy is now, middle income parents can't afford health care for their kids either.

Everyone complains about giving benefits to parents who aren't working, but why not help those who ARE working??

The government should be willing to help our own children before spending our money giving it to children in other countries.

I know couples who both work and the employers don't offer insurance. They still can't afford a trip to the ER when one of them gets hurt or sick. Health care isn't cheap nowadays, a doctor visit can cost around $100 and prescriptions cost even more.

Who said middle income parents can't afford health insurance? I'm middle income, and I can afford it.

Why do so many people want the fed to solve everyone's problems? That's not what government is there for. Why do we continue to reward people for not living up to their own responsibilities? If a couple can't afford health insurance for kids, then maybe they shouldn't have kids. Why should I have to bear the burden of other people's problems? I have enough problems of my own. As a society, we keep tolerating behaviors that are self destructive to society. I'm tired of paying everybody else's way. If you want to have kids, make sure you can house, clothe & feed them. That goes for health insurance as well, as far as I'm concerned.

[odon11]

Because the way the economy is now, middle income parents can't afford health care for their kids either.

Everyone complains about giving benefits to parents who aren't working, but why not help those who ARE working??

The government should be willing to help our own children before spending our money giving it to children in other countries.

I know couples who both work and the employers don't offer insurance. They still can't afford a trip to the ER when one of them gets hurt or sick. Health care isn't cheap nowadays, a doctor visit can cost around $100 and prescriptions cost even more.

Who said middle income parents can't afford health insurance? I'm middle income, and I can afford it.

Why do so many people want the fed to solve everyone's problems? That's not what government is there for. Why do we continue to reward people for not living up to their own responsibilities? If a couple can't afford health insurance for kids, then maybe they shouldn't have kids. Why should I have to bear the burden of other people's problems? I have enough problems of my own. As a society, we keep tolerating behaviors that are self destructive to society. I'm tired of paying everybody else's way. If you want to have kids, make sure you can house, clothe & feed them. That goes for health insurance as well, as far as I'm concerned.

Does your employer offer insurance that's affordable? Not all of them do and families have to come up with $600 or more a month sometimes just to get basic insurance. Not everyone has that much spare money to spend.

When we changed employers we needed a temporary policy to cover us until the new insurance was in effect we had to take out a private policy with extremely high co-pays and deductables. It cost around $600 a month, which was less than the COBRA benefits. We couldn't use it to go to the doctor because of the $500 deductable, it wouldn't pay for basic doctor visit. But with having a pre-existing condition, I had to maintain insurance at all times or my new insurance wouldn't cover my pre-existing condition for another year. But I was lucky enough to have had an employer that offered insurance. My insurance through work was $190 every two weeks, which was still pretty expensive.
Unless someone has a job and makes enough money to be able to afford that, it's impossible to keep insurance.

We can't all forsee the future, and plan likewise. How would someone having a baby today know if they will lose their job in 10 years and not have insurance? Do they have to save half their paychecks all their life "just in case"? That's not practical either. Look at all the companies over the past 10 years that closed the doors and sent the jobs overseas, what about all those employees who had insurance and a decent paycheck who no longer have it? What about couples who divorce and the kids are living with a single parent, even with a good job, paying $500 a month for insurance is impossible. Not all employers offer insurance anymore, they don't have to. That leaves a lot of families without any coverage. One major accident or illness can force a family into bankruptcy.

Should we all have never had kids because who knows what the future should bring? Or wait until we are financially stable to have kids. Most Americans would be too old to have kids if we all waited that long.

[spedly]

Maybe everyone should just buy everything on credit until they can't make the payments and hope the government will pay the debt for them. Oh, wait, that's what's going on with the mortgage crisis. Something else I want to bail irresponsible people out of. Not.

I understand what you're saying, odon, and I realize there should be a stop-gap for life-altering situations. But the bill that Bush vetoed went too far. Middle class citizens should not have subsidized healthcare. I and many others do not want to pay for others' irresponsibilities. What I read about the bill was that your average Joe Middle Class would have been able to drop his family coverage at his employer and get assistance from the government for his kids. That is just wrong. I'm already paying the medical bills of the poor. I can't afford to pay for all the middle class' kids to have healthcare insurance, too. And neither can you.

[odon11]

Maybe everyone should just buy everything on credit until they can't make the payments and hope the government will pay the debt for them. Oh, wait, that's what's going on with the mortgage crisis. Something else I want to bail irresponsible people out of. Not.

I understand what you're saying, odon, and I realize there should be a stop-gap for life-altering situations. But the bill that Bush vetoed went too far. Middle class citizens should not have subsidized healthcare. I and many others do not want to pay for others' irresponsibilities. What I read about the bill was that your average Joe Middle Class would have been able to drop his family coverage at his employer and get assistance from the government for his kids. That is just wrong. I'm already paying the medical bills of the poor. I can't afford to pay for all the middle class' kids to have healthcare insurance, too. And neither can you.

I know I can't, I still have to struggle to pay my own bills and my own health care expenses! Those of us who are lucky enough to have insurance probably aren't getting it for free, except those on Medicaid.

I don't think those who have decent affordable insurance through their employers should be able to drop it. But I do think there should be something done so that it's made affordable by most families. Right now we have very reasonably priced health insurance, what we pay for benefits is a lot less than a lot of people pay. From all the states I lived in, I still think NY residents get a better deal than in other states. I haven't heard of many employers that make employees wait 3, 6 months or longer before their coverage starts. And I haven't heard of anyone with a pre-existing condition clause.

Just curious, for anyone who wants to tell us here.... how much do any of you pay for health insurance a month, how long did you have to work to get insurance, did you have pre-existing condition clause, do you have a high deductable and co-pays? I was just wondering what most people actually pay nowadays.

[issylu]

Someone was telling me last week that they(their insurance company) raised their deductible from $500 to $2400. Maybe if your in the middle class with no wife and kids you might have that much cash laying around!!! What ever happened to the Well Child Clinics in the outlying districts of Chenango County---are they a thing of the past?

[patmlaw]

odon11 wrote:

Just curious, for anyone who wants to tell us here.... how much do any of you pay for health insurance a month, how long did you have to work to get insurance, did you have pre-existing condition clause, do you have a high deductable and co-pays? I was just wondering what most people actually pay nowadays.

For just myself, I pay $19.86 per week. My deductable is $500. We switched to another company and now you have to pay the deductable up front. Meaning, they pay nothing on doctor's bills, etc., until AFTER you've paid your $500. Since I only go to the doctor every 3 months, I pay it all. I DO, however, have a co-pay on my medication. It's around $120 every 3 months through a mail-order pharmacy. This insurance stinks, but it's only how our own company negotiated it to begin with!

My husband only pays $18 per MONTH. He can go to Walmart and get his presciption filled for $4.00 every three months. The company he works for pays for almost everything.

[pubbuster]

I pay well over 200 a month and have a $2000 deductiable that has to be saftisfied first. But then again last year blue cross Blue sheild paid out over $24,000 to my doctors.

Think I'll just keep paying for the insurance. it's worth every penny I pay.

[pubbuster]

The bill that Bush vetoed went too far. Middle class citizens should not have subsidized healthcare. I and many others do not want to pay for others' responsibilities. What I read about the bill was that your average Joe Middle Class would have been able to drop his family coverage at his employer and get assistance from the government for his kids. That is just wrong. I'm already paying the medical bills of the poor. I can't afford to pay for all the middle class' kids to have healthcare insurance, too. And neither can you.

I whole heartily agree with the veto and why it was done. I have stated earlier this year that the next elected president will get elected on a platform that address the health care "cost's" and the economy.

Any congressman or woman that votes to GIVE moneys to others so they won't have to work as hard is wrong. If congress wanted to they could require all employers to supply health care or a portion of it.

I had one employer supply just doctor coverage at one time and I had to cover the hospital costs myself.

Congress should be addressing the rise in costs and ways to keep them down. It’s about putting restrictions on the escalation or cost control.

Look at your latest cable TV packages as an example of ripping the consumer off. These costs have risen 98% since the price controls were removed. What caused the electric bills to rise? Yes price controls and forcing the power company to sell their power plants so now you get 2 power bills instead of one. Oh by the way just who was in office that caused that one. Think before you put another Clinton in office. (thanks for reminding me of this) I did forget about that one.

[odon11]

odon11 wrote:

Just curious, for anyone who wants to tell us here.... how much do any of you pay for health insurance a month, how long did you have to work to get insurance, did you have pre-existing condition clause, do you have a high deductable and co-pays? I was just wondering what most people actually pay nowadays.

For just myself, I pay $19.86 per week. My deductable is $500. We switched to another company and now you have to pay the deductable up front. Meaning, they pay nothing on doctor's bills, etc., until AFTER you've paid your $500. Since I only go to the doctor every 3 months, I pay it all. I DO, however, have a co-pay on my medication. It's around $120 every 3 months through a mail-order pharmacy. This insurance stinks, but it's only how our own company negotiated it to begin with!

My husband only pays $18 per MONTH. He can go to Walmart and get his presciption filled for $4.00 every three months. The company he works for pays for almost everything.

We used to have to do the mail order prescriptions too, which I can't stand. Then they said we could use either the local pharmacies or the mail order. The mail order is a little less expensive, but they screwed up my prescriptions and billing so many times and make it such a pain to order refills I decided it's worth a few extra dollars a year to use the local pharmacy. i like having a real pharmacist I can call with questions, or order refills, and not have to play the phone game with pressing one for this and two for that.

Your insurance isn't expensive at all, but the deductables stink. I don't have any deductable if I go to in network providers, and it's a $250 deductable for out of network. So I go to in network docs. With a co-pay of only $12 I can go to the doctor any time I need to without having to worry about not being able to afford it. I pay around $170 a month for and have medical, dental and vision coverage. When the doc said I needed surgery, I didn't have to worry about getting a huge bill in the mail. I paid a whopping $30!

[spedly]

My company's health insurance is free for the employee, but costs like $250/month for family coverage. So we get family coverage through my wife's employer, which is around $125/month. Both are PPO's so we stay in network and have co-pays only.

[patmlaw]

Many years ago (1976), I had my appendix removed. By the time it was taken out after my attack, I had gangrene set in. I was in the hospital for almost 3 months. Almost died. The insurance I had then covered everything but $1.15. I never did find out what that was about, but I went right down and paid it!

Last year I was in the hospital for a simple proceedure. I went in at 10 AM and got home about 5 PM the same day. On that, I paid over $800 out of my own pocket to the doctor, hospital, anesthesiologist, etc. Like I said, my insurance stinks. It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever decide to have anything done again. It'll have to be life threatening before I'll go in the hospital for anything.

[odon11]

Many years ago (1976), I had my appendix removed. By the time it was taken out after my attack, I had gangrene set in. I was in the hospital for almost 3 months. Almost died. The insurance I had then covered everything but $1.15. I never did find out what that was about, but I went right down and paid it!

Last year I was in the hospital for a simple proceedure. I went in at 10 AM and got home about 5 PM the same day. On that, I paid over $800 out of my own pocket to the doctor, hospital, anesthesiologist, etc. Like I said, my insurance stinks. It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever decide to have anything done again. It'll have to be life threatening before I'll go in the hospital for anything.

The $1.15 was probably the charges for the phone and/or tv, insurance usually never paid for that and a bill was sent separately. Nowadays it's all included.

When the cost of health care is so expensive that people can't use it for preventative care, that's when they wait until it becomes life threatening. Sometimes when they wait that long it's too late.

If people could all afford to go to the doctor for routine check ups, tests, and other preventative care, then many of the trips to the ER and hospitalizations can be avoided.

[pubbuster]

Yes it was in NJ, many years ago. I know it was fraudulant, I questioned it when I was told by one of the nursing supervisors to do it. It was kind of a "don't ask don't tell" thing. It was also before everything was computerized, and we used the addressograph machines to put the patients info on the charge slips for supplies so it was very simple to just use another patients card on the slip. We didn't do it for tests, just supplies.

When I was a patient at CMH I was surprised to receive an itemized bill without asking, in other states it had to be requested.

When my youngest son was born he was in NICU and I requested a bill from the hospital he was born in, as well as the hospital he was transferred to. They didn't automatically do it. Our insurance company at the time used to send out $100 "reward" checks to anyone who found things on their bills that was not accurate. I found this out when I questioned the charge on the bill for a circumcision kit, I know my son was not circ'd there because he was too sick. Most insurance companies would never question that charge because it's a common item to be billed for. I found a few other things I was charged for and knew I never had. My insurance company sent me a check for $100. The did this to get patients to make sure they were not overcharged for things, and I'm sure it saves the ins company a lot of money in the long run. I think it's a good idea. No need to charge patients for things they never used.

You and your previous supervisor head nurse should be investigated for fraud. That was wrong on both yours and her part. Never should you follow orders to do something that’s wrong. You should have reported the head nurse at that time. There is no excuse for what you did. It was a crime and your license to do the work their should have been revoked.

Just reading this tells me you should not be connected to any volunteer ambulance services around this area either. I hope that if someone knows exactly who you are they will put out a investigation.

[justaguy]